Episode 11 Coffee Chats: Whitney Pasch, C-IAYT, on Psych-Sensitive, Trauma-Informed Yoga Teacher Training

In this episode of Coffee Chats, Ramya talks with Whitney Pasch, C-IAYT and lead trainer of the Psych-Sensitive, Trauma-Informed Yoga Teacher Training at Room to Breathe about our upcoming training program: why we lead with trauma sensitivity (rather than just offering a module or lecture on it), what we offer that’s different than other training programs, and who might benefit from training with us.

Resources mentioned:

Transforming Ethnic and Race Based Traumatic Stress with Yoga

Whitney leads a free Yoga Teacher Training Practice + Info Session on Tuesday, July 8th. Learn more + register to attend here.

Interview transcript {edited for clarity}

Ramya (she/her): All right. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Coffee Chats. Today, we have one of our wonderful yoga teachers, Whitney Pash, here to talk about Room to Breathe yoga teacher training, right?

Whitney (she/her): Yeah. Hi, Ramya. Good to be here.

Ramya: Yeah, thank you. Go ahead and tell us a little bit about yourself first, and then we can go into the yoga part.

Whitney: Yeah, I'm a yoga therapist. So I did a 200-hour teacher training program many years ago and then just decided to pursue yoga therapy some years after that. Which is an additional 800 hours and very much emphasizes using yoga as a therapy, bridging it with some Western medical models and preparing me to work clinically with folks.

So that’s what I do. That's my lens. And then I also direct the teacher training program here at Room to Breathe.

Ramya: Okay, awesome. Well, tell us a little bit about that.

Whitney: Our teacher training program is 225 hours. We've got that 25 bonus hours because honestly, 200 is not enough. And it is appropriate for anyone that is interested in becoming a yoga teacher. But specifically, anyone that has an interest in mental health and yoga and their intersection.

Ramya: Yeah. So for people that don't know, what is the intersection there?

Whitney: There's a few points. So I wanted to chat a little bit with you today just about the intersection of yoga and psychology.

And I think it is appropriate because here at Room to Breathe, there's a psychotherapy practice partnered with a yoga studio.

Ramya: Right.

Whitney: You know, to let folks know like, why are we doing that? What does that even mean, what is the common link.

And interestingly enough, yoga philosophy has a lot of psychology in it, embedded in it. From observing your own thoughts to changing neural pathways, stuff that we see in Western psychology, but that is also phrased a little bit differently in yoga philosophy and described in detail in the Yoga Sutras, which is a classical text that is basically a set of guidelines for how to live with more ease.

Ramya: Mm-hmm.

Whitney: So the two come together. Because yoga is not just movement of the body, which we see a lot of in our culture here in the West. Many think people yoga and they think okay, I'm going to do some stretches. I'm going to take some deep breaths. And those things might happen. But a lot of other things happen too.

And we're really working with rewiring of the nervous system which we do by recruiting not just the body and movement but the breath and the thoughts, observing the thoughts, tracking the thoughts, sometimes redirecting those thoughts to a place that is a little bit more beneficial or like at least self-compassionate, I would say.

Ramya: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Whitney: Yeah. Does that make sense?

Ramya: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it totally makes sense. I know… Here at Room to Breathe. We also emphasize mental health a lot and trauma-informed yoga through the program. Can you speak a little bit more to that?

Whitney: Absolutely. So trauma-informed is, it is a buzzword or buzz phrase right now.

Ramya: Right. I get a lot of clients asking me what trauma-informed yoga actually means.

Whitney: Really? Okay.

Ramya: So this is good that we're talking about it. Yeah.

Whitney: Okay. Can I ask you, I don't want to put you on the spot, but can I ask you what your response to them usually is or what your understanding of trauma-informed yoga is?

Ramya: Sure. I usually tell people that ask that it's more about understanding the mind-body connection, understanding what is happening in our physical body and how it impacts our mental health plus whatever triggers or activation factors that we might have depending on our own trauma histories that we may or may not even be aware of. So holding space for maybe certain movements or certain thoughts or certain things that we do, we'll have those triggers but knowing that we don't have to do anything that activates us on purpose because that's a part of our healing is basically what I go into and then talking about how our body holds trauma and all of that and trauma reactions that we can have.

Whitney: Yeah. Yeah, that's great.

Ramya: Is that like kind of around the area of what you guys usually tell people or…

Whitney: For sure.

Ramya: Okay.

Whitney: Yeah, there's different ways to phrase it. That's why I was just curious also from your from your lens, because you and I have different lenses, you know, different backgrounds. So I was curious what your understanding of it was.

And yes, I love what you said there, which was - this one piece of i t- that we can, when we recognize what some of our triggers are, then we can choose to do different things. There's choice there.

Ramya: Right. Yeah.

Whitney: I want to like emphasize the word choice and then kind of circle back to, again, so trauma-informed is this - it's a buzzword or a buzz phrase right now. And in my opinion, it should be. It's appropriate and I think that our culture has neglected trauma or not really been able to acknowledge trauma in a way that trauma deserves to be acknowledged.

Ramya: Yeah.

Whitney: You know, different cultures do that differently. But here in just like mainstream culture in the US, we don't hold a lot of space for it. And until recently, there hasn't been a ton of recognition from the science community of how trauma changes the brain.

Ramya: Uh-huh, yeah.

Whitney: It rewires us. It has a physiological imprint. It's not just, there was this scary or awful thing that happened it's - there is a response now. It has made an imprint in my system. What can we do with that?

Ramya: Yeah, exactly. There's been research that shows that the way that our neural pathways work and the neurons that fire and the way that our hormones work in our brain like you said, physically changes the way that our brain works and even like sometimes brain anatomy you know it morphs over time because we do have that flexibility as humans for our brains, it definitely changes the way that our body works.

Whitney: Yeah. Yeah. And I personally find that really fascinating. And I also find it really hopeful and empowering and people might respond to that information differently. Someone might think oh, no, trauma changes my brain well, now I'm - sometimes people might feel like they're broken or that something is wrong with them because they have these nervous system responses that can sometimes feel out of control.

And my take on it is that with the education that trauma changes the brain is also the education that the brain is changeable. So we can then also do things to help with nervous system regulation, to help with nervous system resiliency. Post-trauma. And that's empowering. That's something that the individual can do in some capacity, I would say with a group or with a facilitator you know…

Ramya: Right. I think that point that you mentioned about like we have a choice about where we want to go with it when doing yoga or going about the rest of our lives, but that's also super empowering. We can touch those parts when we're ready to and when we feel ready to feel like we're ready to approach those feelings, but we don't have to do anything that makes us uncomfortable or puts us in a more hypervigilant state or like a more dangerous state, if you will. And that's almost like the definition of empowerment, of being able to do what we want to do when we're ready for it.

Whitney: Yes. Yes, exactly. So with trauma-informed yoga and with the teacher training program, which has this trauma-informed emphasis, we even have a few modules that are just focused on it or not, sorry, not modules, but lectures on trauma-informed teaching and trauma-informed meditation. So this is not just yoga as the physical postures, but it includes meditation as well, which can also be trauma informed.

As well as, you know, how can we teach these ancient yogic tools, right? Tools for wellness, tools for regulation in a setting to a variety of populations in a way that also allows the practitioner, the student to have agency over their own bodies. So - with the trauma-informed piece, some of it is the language that you use. Some of it is how are we setting up a space? That can create a safe container for folks. Part of it is offering, if I'm teaching a yoga class, offering options and truly encouraging folks to explore what feels good for them or at the very least, what feels neutral for them in their bodies so they can start to explore that and either create, if it's been lost or strengthen the connection between the mind and the body in a way that is healing and that holds compassion for self.

Ramya: Yeah. Could you give our listeners maybe a couple of examples of what that looks or sounds like?

Whitney: Absolutely. So I would say with like orienting the room or setting up the space, creating a container where people cannot - this is going to depend on where someone is teaching - but to know that no one's going to be walking through the space. If there's windows, that the curtains are closed. If you're teaching and there's a door to the public, the folks that are coming and attending the class would not want their backs to that door. So there's some small orienting things like that, making sure people have enough personal space.

And then with the specifics of like teaching instruction, reminding folks throughout the yoga class or the yoga session to gently check in. How is this feeling for you right now? Not: this is supposed to feel like a stretch in this place. Because people feel things in different ways. The experience is unique.

So inviting folks to get curious and inquire, where do I feel this? Does this feel appropriate? And if it doesn't, encouragement to try something different.

Let me think of an example here just with a yoga pose. Let's just take downward facing dog, a yoga pose that a lot of people have heard of whether or not they practice yoga. I think a lot of us have heard of downward dog. Not an appropriate pose for a lot of people for a lot of different reasons. Physical, mental, energetic, hormonal, variety of reasons why someone would maybe not want to practice downward dog. But they could have some fear in going to a public class because there's an expectation that they're going to have to practice this pose that doesn't feel appropriate, maybe feels vulnerable, does not feel safe.

So what could the teacher do instead? Puppy pose. You bring your knees down to the floor or practice in table pose or child's pose. So a different posture that can be substituted in, because sometimes people don't know, right? If they're like, well, this doesn't feel right, but I don't know what to do. So you give them a little menu.

Ramya: Right.

Whitney: Here's a few other things you could choose. And… describe or present that menu of options with equal value.

Ramya: Oh, uh-huh.

Whitney: So this is not level one, level two, level three. This is - if this feels better for you, try it out. If you want to try something different, here's another idea. See how it goes.

Ramya: I see. Yeah. I imagine that that reduces maybe some potential shame or guilt there of like someone's physically or emotionally not able to do certain things and so they have to quote unquote like demote or make it easier, but rather here's an alternative that other people can do other people can If you're not feeling like you can do this, not that there's like a lesser value to it or like a competence level to it, I guess.

Whitney: Correct. Correct. Yeah, it's that these are all of equal value, let's remove… stigma from things such as even like using yoga blocks to create space in poses where sometimes people are like, I don't want to use those that's a crutch. I don't need it and I don't want it. So our egos get in the way sometimes or expectations. Oh, am I going to look a certain way or be less than if I come out of this pose early and give myself permission to rest?

And so there might be some pressure coming externally that people could pick up on but also how much pressure comes internally from the individual that, you know, has grown up in a society where we are always told to do more, to do more, to do more, to push, to push, to push.

Ramya: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Whitney: And now to see, okay, how does it affect my system to stop pushing so much. And allow space for a little ease and allow space for a little bit of healing. And that's what so many of us need. Especially in healing from trauma. But I would say for many.

Ramya: Yeah, yeah. No, I'm just sitting that for a minute. That makes so much sense. What kind of responses do you get from people when you tell them this kind of thing?

Whitney: Generally speaking. I think that folks find it inviting.

Ramya: Mm-hmm.

Whitney: I personally find it inviting like when I attend a public class somewhere. I just think it's great if the teacher can give a few different options or use language that again creates equal value for different choices in the class and basically gives agency to whoever is practicing. And that tends to be the feedback that I get from people too. It's really lovely when I'm teaching a class, especially if it's like maybe students that I don't all know really well and I see someone choosing something for themselves and it's obvious to me that they did that because they listened to their body and then made a cognitive choice to do something that was more in alignment with how they were feeling. That is a beautiful thing to see. And that tells me without them verbalizing to me that they're listening to their bodies. And that's really where like a lot of the work lies in yoga is like listening to the words, sometimes doing less, sometimes doing something different.

Yeah, I don't want to get too far off on a tangent here because I talk about it all day but -

But I think just the agency piece, right? Guiding people towards their body's own wisdom is a great gift. And so that's something that we foster in the teacher training program. We want all of the people that leave the program to be able to teach and facilitate a space that guides students towards their own inherent wisdoms.

Ramya: Mhm. Yeah. Well, speaking of, let's go through a little bit more of the nitty gritty of the teacher training.

Whitney: Yeah, so…

A few different components. Some different moving parts. We do have…the movement, the anatomy, the physical postures. Those are important. And the philosophy and the integration with the modern world that we live in and the integration in our communities is of equal importance. So with the teacher training program, you're going to see lectures that are, again, physically and anatomically based, but then also lectures that speak more to what's going on inside or in an integrative way.

And some examples of those are: we have a lecture on mental health first aid that's led by two of our therapists that are also yoga teachers here at Room to Breathe, led by Kath and Sam. And so again, that's just like really valuable. We have a lecture on yoga and anxiety. So ways to meet anxiety and maybe to move it towards a more balanced or a more grounded state.

We emphasize sequencing not just from a structural standpoint, meaning not just from the connective tissues like the joints and the muscles but also from an energetic standpoint. So how can we….I don't love using the word manipulate but I guess I could just say change, but how can we change or alter our energetic states through a physical practice, through a breathing practice, through a meditation practice, or a combination of those three things?

Ramya: Mm-hmm.

Whitney: So we look at energy, anxiety, mental health first aid, the role of yoga in social justice, which is led by Stephanie Hicks. So we have a lecture there.

Ramya: Yeah can you speak a little bit more to that piece? That's something I think that's different that most people don't hear.

Whitney: Yeah, so yoga is…well, it has been culturally appropriated, which I think a lot of people are aware of. And it's taken a lot of different forms and I don't know exactly how Stephanie approaches this lecture because that's her space. But what comes to mind for me when I think of the role of yoga in social justice kind of it does circle back into the trauma-informed piece which is recreating a felt sense of safety inside the body. And that is really, really important for everybody. And I think it is especially important for people and bodies that have been mistreated by society or by the government. Because that is traumatic. That creates physiological change. So yoga as a practice of self-embodiment and reclaiming agency can also be an act of resistance. You know, an act of social justice.

Ramya: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Whitney: So there is that lens. And I also want to just plug here for anyone listening that if they're interested in that. And maybe just want to do a little bit more learning on their own. That one of the books that Stephanie uses that is in, it's one of our required readings for teacher training, is called Transforming Ethnic and Race-based Traumatic Stress with Yoga.

And I'm going to say that again, Transforming Ethnic and Race-based Traumatic Stress with Yoga. There's a lot of other resources, but that's the one that I want to plug for now. And know that that also with that book talk and with the lecture on the role in social justice that Room to Breathe values community and grassroots efforts in Chicago, but also in different places because some of our community is virtual and not all in the Chicagoland area. But that healing happens, you know, in community and in connection. And that's…That is kind of the root of yoga is connection.

Ramya: Great. No, that's beautiful. What other lectures or themes are a part of the teacher training?

Whitney: A section of our lectures are grouped together and it's called the Going Deeper program. I wanted to chat about that a little bit here. And it looks like we have the time for it.

Ramya: Yeah, we have plenty of time. Go ahead.

Whitney: So the full [yoga teacher] training is 225 hours. The Going Deeper program is, I think, 25 hours. Don't hold me to that exact hour, but I think it's something like that. And it's something that folks could take as a standalone if the whole training did not make sense for them for some reason.

It's not an intro. So I want to be clear about that. So if someone was to take the Going Deeper lectures It would be advised that they had some background in yoga, either they've been practicing or studying for a while, or if they've already done a teacher training and they want some extra like continuing education credits.

Ramya: Mm-hmm.

Whitney: But the Going Deeper program focuses on philosophy. So that is not going to be the teaching of the postures or the anatomy, that's separate in the teacher training program. But the Going Deeper lectures have the eight limbs of yoga, which is, these are all philosophies, so I don't have time, nor do I think this is a space to like unpack them with you, but I'll kind of go over them a little bit.

Ramya: Sure. Yeah.

Whitney: So we have the eight limbs of yoga, which includes the yamas and the niyamas. These are some guidelines to, I would say, living life with integrity for yourself and then also for your community.

The other lectures in Going Deeper are: Practical Pranayama, using breath as medicine. More than just taking a deep breath, much, much more than taking a deep breath. But looking at what happens when we breathe and how does it affect us energetically. And what are some practical applications of that. Because we're all breathing, right?

Ramya: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Whitney: Right now, like I'm breathing, you're breathing. Notice what's going on with the breath. So that's one of my favorite lectures. I'll teach that one.

We have history and essence of the chakra system. Shana teaches those lectures. It's a two-part lecture, actually. And so the chakra system is another lens that's utilized in yoga philosophy that a lot of people have heard of. A lot of people have heard of chakras. So this is a deeper dive into what are they? Why is it helpful to know about them? And how can that be integrated into a teaching or a practice.

So we have chakras. We also have a lecture on mudras. Mudras are like yoga poses for your hands. So, you know, we have so much energy in our hands and putting them in certain positions can have, for some people a really profound effect. And for some people, a really subtle effect.

Ramya: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Whitney: So even right now I'm just going to invite you, Ramya and like whoever's listening to take a moment and bring awareness to your hands. You can try like brushing your thumbs against your fingertips or just rolling the hands open and closed a few times.

And notice how your hands feel. Without looking for anything specific. Just notice how your hands feel. Notice the palms of your hands. Notice the backs of your hands. And then let that go. Just bringing awareness to this part of the body where again we have a lot of nerve endings and we have a really strong brain mapping for what's going on with our hands.

Ramya: Mm-hmm.

Whitney: Have you heard of - I wasn't going to talk about this today, but I'm going there. We're going there. Ramya, have you heard of the homunculus man?

Ramya: I haven't.

Whitney: Okay. So-

Ramya: I've seen, wait, is this the that image that we see a lot?

Whitney: Yeah, with the big tongue and the big hands.

Ramya: Yes, yes. I've seen this image, but I don't know a lot about it.

Whitney: Yes, the homunculus man. I should say homunculus person. We do not need to gender this person but - It's an image. So for those listening, you can Google it.

It's an image that kind of roughly shows what the physical body proportions would be if they were matched to our brain's perception of what's going on in those parts of the body.

Ramya: Oh!

Whitney: So by that, I mean, you know where your hand is in space, unless there's like neuropathy or it's like a specific condition. But if there's not, you know where your hand is in space.

Ramya: Uh-huh.

Whitney: Can we agree on that?

Ramya: Yes, yes.

Whitney: Yeah. And you can feel your hand and you know where your fingers are and all of that. Same with your toes. So notice your feet, notice your toes. And then same with your face. Notice your lips. You could try like licking your lips, blink your eyes, a lot of sensation in these places.

And now bring your awareness to the middle of your calf on the right side.

Ramya: Okay.

Whitney: And you might be able to find it. I don't know. Some people may or may not. That just depends on body awareness and the individual. But the brain is not going to have as strong of a perception or sensation on the right side of the calf as it does for the hand.

Ramya: Yeah.

Whitney: Like the brain will also not have as strong of awareness as like the middle of the upper back where a lot of us hold tension. That's kind of the great unknown back there.

Ramya: Uh-huh.

Whitney: Right? So when you see this image of the homunculus man, the hands and the feet and the face and like, especially the lips and the tongue and the eyes are really big. The genitals are really big too. And then the rest of the body is much smaller. So it's kind of goofy looking. But it's about perception and brain mapping.

Ramya: Yeah. Huh. Interesting. Yeah.

Whitney: How did we get on this topic? Mudras. That's how, yeah! So, we have energy -

Ramya: Yes. Philosophy, mudras, yes.

Whitney: We have energy in our hands. I also want to say while we're talking about trauma-informed yoga. That it is normal. It is normal for folks to have a challenge bringing the mind into the body.

Ramya: Mmm.

Whitney: It can be really tough to do. It can be scary. It can be uncomfortable. So sometimes using mudras, just like different hand positions, different ways that we touch our fingers together specifically can be a maybe safer or more palatable entry point for someone that finds it quite challenging to bring the mind into the physical body. Does that make sense?

Ramya: Yeah, yeah it does.

Whitney: Okay. Okay. Anyways, mudras. We have those.

Ramya: No, no, keep going. I want to hold space for you to get through. The philosophies and your thoughts.

Whitney: Mantra. Mantra is using sound. It can include chanting. It can also include like humming just hmm. Like that can be mantra work it doesn't be have to be a specific chant, but it can be.

Ramya: Yeah, yeah.

Whitney: And then also diving into what are called the five koshas. And this is also from yoga philosophy. Koshas are kind of like layers or aspects of our being, who we are. And so it's another lens through which to view and kind of understand our human experience through the mind, the energetic body, the physical body, the inner wisdom. And then it is believed in yoga philosophy that the innermost kosha layer very deep inside all of ourselves is bliss. That is the belief. And I'm not here to convince you or anyone of that or anyone else of that. But I will say that that is the yoga philosophical belief there that we are - at the heart of hearts, we are bliss.

Ramya: Yeah. Yeah, that's so interesting. Thank you for sharing all of those, Whitney.

I know, I think there might have been one more thing that we wanted to talk about today about what clinicians and people that take the yoga teacher training can share and can teach with others.

Whitney: Yeah. So our training program is is as I've said many times to you today, it's focused on mental health. It is appropriate for anyone that wants to be a yoga teacher. But I want to invite clinicians, talk therapists. Massage therapists. Social workers. Physical therapists. Chiropractors, people that work in the wellness field that are maybe not necessarily yoga teachers, I want to invite those people to check out our program if it's something that is of interest because it can complement the work that they're already doing.

So in the instance of talk therapy. In a clinical setting. If a therapist was to take our training program, become a certified yoga teacher and felt comfortable utilizing those skills, it's then something that you can offer your patients as some additional regulation tools. Using the bottom up approach, using the body to address what's happening in the mind. So that could be as simple as just taking a couple of breaths together with a client or teaching them a couple postures that might feel nice to settle their system before bed. Or… giving them a guided meditation to practice at home. It doesn't have to be like a big long thing, but little tools that can complement what someone is already doing in their clinical practice.

And I think that is a big piece that is bridged here at Room to Breathes’ teacher training program that I don't see at a a lot of other training programs. And are a bit more focused on like these are the foundations of the postures. This is how you're going to teach a public flow class. And again, you will learn that. But there's more emphasis on emphasis how does this affect the mind? How does this affect the nervous system?

Ramya: As we are trying to prep to wind down a little bit on this podcast. Is there anything else that we didn't talk about today that you feel like it's really important for our listeners to know about yoga or the teacher training?

Whitney: I would just say that just to remind everyone listening that yoga is a lot more than stretching. It's a lot more than a series of postures. It is a philosophy. It is connection with yourself. It is connection with your community. And that's something that we drive home at Room to Breathe. So that's, I think, really important to focus on. And the second piece is a little bit more technical, just going back to the Going Deeper program. To let folks know that that's offered hybrid. So if you do the full teacher training, it is expected that in person for the anatomy and for the physical postures. But if you're taking the Going Deeper program and your focus there is the philosophical discussions - That that is done hybrid. So I invite folks from out of state or out of the Chicago area if they're interested to look into that and see if that's something that's practical.

Ramya: I also want to remind listeners that we have a variety of yoga classes that you can sign up for too that are wonderful all of the instructors for the yoga classes are great too. So please make sure that everyone checks that out. Look into the yoga teacher training if you qualify I know Whitney just spent the last 40 minutes talking about it and I’ve heard nothing but great things. I hope to take it in the future myself. So please check us out and thank you again for listening. Any last words, Whitney?

Whitney: Just thank you, Ramya. Thank you for the space to talk about something. I hope I didn't tangent too much because I absolutely can do that.

Ramya: Oh my gosh, no, we should do like a part two on just the yoga piece too.

Whitney: I could talk about it all day for every day, but I won't. I won't. But last thing, check out the website if you're interested in teacher training. We have our applications on there. There are no qualifications to apply. Applying is just applying. So that is there and yeah, reach out to me if you have any questions about it.

Ramya: Awesome. Well, thank you so much. Thank you for logging on, everyone. And we hope to see you next time on Coffee Chats.